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Post by badlygiven on Apr 23, 2009 5:41:52 GMT -7
Okay, so there is an understanding of Catholic thought and practice...there are different things that we as Catholics practice in our faith...but there are very few that are actually "dogma"...(basic, central, teachings). These are the Mass, and the Sacraments, and a few others. The others are part of the faith, but not dogma. Now, you may go..."aha! See! Those Catholics are not scriptural!". Many of those things have their basis in understanding in Scripture. But, like a child who grows in knowledge, so too do we grow in understanding. The thing is, we do it together as a church. That is why the concept of limbo is no longer a part of the teachings of the Church...it wasn't a dogmatic teaching...the same for male priests, or unmarried priests...a part of the faith, but not of the dogma. Actually rosa, many of the people that complain about a more "Protestant" understanding of faith are those that have probably been "bopped" in the head by a Bible from a well meaning Protestant brother or sister who wanted to save that Catholic heathen from Hell... The concept of purgatory also comes from an understanding of Scripture in Maccabees where the soldiers placed coins on the dead, and prayed for them. This is anathema for some Protestant denominations, since the belief is that "you had your chance on earth, nothing else will help you", but we look at it as..."they tried really hard, but messed up a little before they died, and they deserve Heaven", moving those same people along the "concert line". And yes, we baptize older kids as well...depending on the age of the child, flowing water over the head, or immersion, if equipped with a large font. (which many churches that get rebuilt are getting installed)
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Post by webrunner on Apr 23, 2009 7:12:35 GMT -7
Just for the record, that kind of "bopping" cuts both directions. Don't think I haven't been told in my past that the Kingdom of Heaven has no place for one who does not believe in the one true Church. Seriously Badly, how is it that a scripturally based Church is even in a position to be "bopped" in the head with the Bible? Why would one see it as a "bopping" at all?
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Post by badlygiven on Apr 23, 2009 8:33:29 GMT -7
My apologies Web, ...that "bopping" does take place on both sides...
It's not the Bible that people "bop" with...it's their interpretation of it...and that holds true for Catholics as well as Protestants...
I think that there are so many things we have in common, there are so many things we could enjoy as brothers and sisters in Christ...yet we try to evangelize the evangelized...simply because they beleive or practice differently...in the process, we end up looking like fools because we argue incessantly about practice, and forget the core of our common Christian faith. When we do that, we no longer are lights of Christ for those who live in the darkness of the world...we are birghtly dressed clowns posing for the cameras.
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rosa
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Post by rosa on Apr 23, 2009 9:09:16 GMT -7
ouch
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Post by webrunner on Apr 23, 2009 9:59:01 GMT -7
Ouch, indeed. Could either of you tell me which teachings, "Protestant in nature" are being embraced? Typically we Protestant types will not advocate for anything that we don't think is Biblically based. Now I know, you all will tell me that it's just our interpretation but why can't you counter that with your own interpretation, instead of accusing us of "bopping" anyone with the Bible (sorry Badly, but that one stung).
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Post by badlygiven on Apr 23, 2009 10:17:24 GMT -7
Again, I apologize for that. It was not meant as a blanket statement, though I can see how it was misconstrued as such. We probalby all suffer from people who are well meaning, but who never accept others practices. The problem that I have personally had with it is that I have offered those explainations and counter-interpretations, but those same folks who are close minded only accept their own, while saying that "the Bible is not open to interpretation".
Let me give you an example. My nephew in Fort Worth once asked if we pray before a meal. We stated that we did. He asked a question about what Catholics did in church, and as we were explaining to him, his father said, "Hey! I don't want you telling him about that Catholic stuff..we have our own way of beleiving and we don't see that way as the right way because they don't beleive everything in the Bible" Now granted...my brother in law can be a jackass...but we didn't bring up the conversation, my nephew asked a question. We didn't mention anything else again. Later though, my wife was livid...she is a convert from the Presbyterian faith, and she was upset that he had been on the ugly side of rude. It's these people I meant, web, and not the majority of our Protestant brethern. My brother in law belongs to the Church of Christ, but I WILL NOT say that this belief is the same for all the Church of Christ affiliates.
Again, my apologies to you web...and anyone else who took offense at what I wrote...
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Post by webrunner on Apr 23, 2009 15:06:43 GMT -7
Badly, you're a such good guy. Let me just say this, you owe me no apology. If I take offense where none is intended, that's on me, not you. I think it's just possible that I recognize myself in your criticisms of my Protestant breathren and I'm smarting a little because of that.
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rosa
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Post by rosa on Apr 23, 2009 15:23:23 GMT -7
I'm clueless; I saw nothing other than the bopping. Is that what you all are referring to?
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Post by badlygiven on Apr 23, 2009 17:01:33 GMT -7
Web, you know what? Your questions have bee respectful, and as such have given me a chance to renew my knowledge of my own faith. Your own faith and grace is evident in your quest for knowledge. You are blessed, as are my friends here on this site...we question ourselves and each other, but do it not as an exercise of supremacy, but one in humility and love.
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Post by webrunner on Apr 23, 2009 17:07:58 GMT -7
Well said, my friend.
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Post by Tim Collins on Apr 23, 2009 17:48:32 GMT -7
Web, you know what? Your questions have bee respectful, and as such have given me a chance to renew my knowledge of my own faith. Your own faith and grace is evident in your quest for knowledge. You are blessed, as are my friends here on this site...we question ourselves and each other, but do it not as an exercise of supremacy, but one in humility and love. Thats the goal anyway. Personally I think we are doing pretty darn well at it to. (Well that danged Rosa could use some coaching - ) Jus kidding she plays nice as well.
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Post by webrunner on Apr 23, 2009 18:16:27 GMT -7
Web, you know what? Your questions have bee respectful, and as such have given me a chance to renew my knowledge of my own faith. Your own faith and grace is evident in your quest for knowledge. You are blessed, as are my friends here on this site...we question ourselves and each other, but do it not as an exercise of supremacy, but one in humility and love. Thats the goal anyway. Personally I think we are doing pretty darn well at it to. (Well that danged Rosa could use some coaching - ) Jus kidding she plays nice as well. As opposed to. . .? ;D
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rosa
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Post by rosa on Apr 23, 2009 19:17:44 GMT -7
heck now I don't know what happened.....if I'm to be credited for making trouble, at least someone out there be kind enough to show me the trail. I missed it some miles back
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Post by webrunner on Apr 23, 2009 20:15:02 GMT -7
heck now I don't know what happened.....if I'm to be credited for making trouble, at least someone out there be kind enough to show me the trail. I missed it some miles back Rosa, Snil was just messin' wit you.
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Post by Tim Collins on Apr 29, 2009 16:21:55 GMT -7
Badly, I'd like to go back to your description of purgatory. Where does that concept come from if you know? Do you believe there is actually a hell? One last question, not really related to that but who is the Pope? What is his role? I'm not badly, but I can attempt to answer who is the Pope. Badly can clean up my errors. The Pope is the Spiritual leader of the Catholic Church. He (sorry only guys get the cool hat (Miter?) and sheppards crook) is considered a "descendant" of Peter, of whom Jesus said "Peter, you are my rock, upon whom I will build my house" (really bad paraphrase of a bible quote I cannot recall). The role of the Pope is to provide the spiritual direction of the Catholic Church. He is in effect the President/Prime Minister of the organization. He is guided by the College of Cardinals, who in turn direct the Bishops, who in tern direct their Priests. Somewhere in this picture are the leaders of the various religious orders (Franciscans, Jesuits, etc). On issues of faith, and when the Pope declares he is speaking from the throne of Peter, his proclamations are considered infallible.
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